Negativity In The WMH Community

I write this fully acknowledging that Donna & I are total newbs to the world of Warmachine / Hordes / Privateer Press. We only started playing last July. With less than a year under our belts with the game & a lot of that time dealing with the tail end of covid restrictions, I recognize that our experience is super limited compared to the majority of WMH players.

That said, this is a subject that's been on my mind almost from the beginning. It's also a lot deeper of a subject than I'd do justice in just one blog post. There are too many aspects / avenues to address. So, I'll just dive into the first few that stand out to me here & maybe get into others in future blogs. 




Overall, our experience has been that most of the WMH community is a really supportive, positive group. I have no doubt that the amount of excited posting I do, especially early on, could turn people off. I get that. 

Even still, I got very little as far as negativity directed at me.

I can't say the same for every post / comment / etc from others. I've seen too many cases of someone asking a simple question / making a basic observation followed by people railing in the comments with many of the same, tired gripes.

To clarify, not every complaint / concern that's brought up is bad or unfounded. Some of the more common things that are mentioned that I wholeheartedly agree with are:

- Asking for more community engagement / communication from PP to the players.

- Restocking battlegroup boxes & starter sets / making new Brawlmachine-centric starter sets.

- Improving distribution overseas & improved relations with FLGSs. 

Unfortunately, even when these valid concerns are brought up, at least half of the comments mentioning them are written with such disdain & misery that they can actually hurt the message due to how off-putting the tone of the message is. The thing isn't that complaining or stating a negative is bad in and of itself. It's more that overly miserable tone and language that's used in some of the most common gripes.




As someone who has been thoroughly engrossed in the game since discovering it, a decent amount of my time over the last 9 months has been voraciously consuming every bit of WMH content I could find. This ranged from podcasts to video batreps to blogs to forum posts and everything in between.

In going through all of that material, I saw several "THE SKY IS FALLING" mantras repeated for as far back as 2017. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more going back further than that, but I can say for sure that I've seen these things repeated for at least 4-5 years worth of online gripes.

"THE GAME IS DEAD! IT'S ALL OVER!", they've decried over the years. Conveniently ignoring the work that PP has put into it throughout that time with updates, new factions, new models, etc. This is almost always based on what they see in their own local area...as if their local meta dictates the entirety of the game's status around the world. 

"PRIVATEER IS DONE FOR! THEY'RE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS!", they type with absolute certainty. This one is often following a particular well-known member of the team moving on to work somewhere else. From what I saw, this was prophesized when Oz left, Hungerford moved on, even as recent as when Faye left...Meanwhile, PP is still around and still putting out new material for all the current games in their line. 

Even better is that often when you see these comments, they're made by people who readily admit they don't even play the game anymore. Yet, they insist on hanging around in FB groups / forums about the game so they can jump into discussions to spread their negativity; often offering nothing to the actual conversation being had, but just looking to dump on someone excited about the game.

And, no, this isn't me crying out because someone said something mean...lmao...you cannot hurt my feelings. Even if it were possible for some random internet stranger to offend / upset me, as I mentioned, this hasn't happened much at all on my own posts, but more something I see happening on a lot of posts by others.




I hate to say it, but I guess the simple fact is that some people are miserable and as the old saying goes...like company.

"Well aren't you being negative complaining about the complainers?" Nah, bud, I'm just pontificating about things I've seen and exploring ways that I can try to help combat them. I grew up in poverty, a child of divorce (mom abandoned us when I was 5) who suffered under an abusive alcoholic father (took his anger / pain at losing my mom out on me). I lived enough misery in my first 18 years of life to get my fill. 

Things certainly aren't perfect in my life these days, but I * CHOOSE * to focus on the positives. When faced with negatives, I * CHOOSE * to try to find ways to fix or at least work around them. 

That's why I post a lot. That's a big part of why I write this blog. That's why I put in so much work over the last 2 weeks to improve things for people who currently play or who might be interested in playing Company of Iron (and still working on those things now).

Getting into the game during covid, there was understandably a drop in new content for Warmachine. So, instead of complaining about it, I made some. On top of that, I bought some video equipment, bought software, and bought the entire catalog of Incompetech music so that I can eventually add 1 video batrep per month to my blog content.

The other counter to denouncing the negativity is that we who try to see the bright side are just being "white knights" for PP. 

HA!!!!!

Seriously? 

I am certainly a fan of PP & the game, but the idea that someone seeking out positive discussion about something they enjoy meaning they're "simping" for the company (as some have accused) is beyond ridiculous.

I started this off with stating that PP could do better with communication, putting focus into getting starter boxes restocked, etc. Those are valid complaints that I fully support. I can honestly evaluate & point out where things can be improved without having to wallow in misery as we discuss it; trying to shout down anyone who's enjoying the game.




Another thing that I think gets lost on those who focus solely on the negatives is all the work that PP has done over the recent years. This includes something as small as adding to the lore with the Hengehold Scrolls all the way to the massive update put out last October and the coming launch of the Orgoth.

Understandably, you're not going to make everyone happy all the time even with the things I've mentioned above. However, it's funny that 2 of the common complaints I've seen fly directly in the face of each other. For every complaint that someone's favorite action hasn't gotten new models in X years, there's somebody else complaining that there's too many models & PP needs to cut some out of the game. That contrast is a discussion for another day. 



On the positive side, a player (Benjamin Tolputt) started what I believe can be a very productive post in the main WMH group on FB. In the post, he offers a positive & negative and asks others to follow suit. It's turned out so far to be a very constructive discussion where most of the negatives are being brought up as things players would like to see PP change / do, but without all the vitriol that usually pops up in negative comments.



Oh and I'm sure someone somewhere could have something negative to say about what I've written in this blog. Go for it. I don't care. 

I'm going to be too busy over here putting together some Druid Mist Riders for my wife & starting to type out my batrep for next week.



Comments

  1. You have a great view, and I have really enjoyed your posts for the last 9 months about your experience getting into the game. Thank you for contributing and posting pics of games with all paint minis ;). The negativity surrounding PP right now is definitely a problem. I am a long time player, ex-PG, and current community organizer for my Meta. I think a lot of the negativity stems from events PP could not control and some bad choices they made the last few years.

    Production issues, loss of the plastic manufacture resulting in the manufacture stealing their molds, distributors at first stopping carrying their full line and then then refusing to carry more then just the new releases if anything, focus on new product instead of stabilizing the ability to provide access of existing product to make entry for the game easier for new players, the stopping of promoting regular themed leagues and campaigns in their community, etc. Also the regular leagues and campaign months took a back seat a focusing on Tournament play and building out and balancing the game early on in Mk3 do to some mistakes made when the release was rushed in reaction to declining number in a large part do to the success of Age of Sigmar and shortly after 40K 8th. Also PP was forced to end their long stand Pressgang program which didn't help.

    Ending the PG program was necessary in reaction to a lawsuit filed by MTG Judges saying they were being treated like employees but not being compensated properly. At that time pretty much all companies ended there fan volunteer programs. But the effect was larger as far to few of us continued running events and promoting PP games in our local communities without the incentives PP had provided, which I never viewed as necessary but obviously many others did. This lead to communities dying because no one was willing to stand up and take charge. Without a community to support the PP product line, when it got harder for Retailers to reliably get PP product in through their regular distributor, instead of changing who or how they ordered product, most stores just stopped carrying it. This lead to the few players still interested or those who still frequented the store to form negative opinions about PP failing them and the decline of the game.

    This all happened in 2016/2017 so runs well with the time line you discussed. Of course there are a lot more issues and a lot more causes, many out side PPs control, but thank you for promoting positivity, I look forward to continuing to follow your progress and maybe one day getting in a game with you at a Con sometime. -Jay Powell

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    1. Thanks for the insight into some of the history I wasn't as knowledgeable about. I never knew what the story was with the PGs going away since it was gone so long before my time, but I try to be an ambassador for the game / create content / etc to attempt in my own small way to fill what I envisioned the PG roll was. Not in any official capacity & no need for it to be, but just trying to do my own thing to spread the word about the game Donna & I love.

      Our small town doesn't have any game stores around here, but I'm hoping now that things are opened up post covid that I'll be able to share the game with others around here & get more people playing in the area. That's part of why Donna & I invested in buying a small (25-50 pt) amount of just about every faction. If we find others around here who want to play, they can jump in using models I've already got built & painted. Then, if they enjoy it enough, they can look into buying / building their own armies.

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  2. I have loved this game for at least 5 years, I am in love with the Iron kingdoms and the game mechanics.

    That said, PP has been making a lot of decision(or lack of them) that I belive have the game comunity in a very frustrated position. I can elavorate if you wish, but I would end up writing a blog as long as yours.

    Here I stay in hopes that they stir the ship back into the right direction. Wich in some regards they have (like showing painted miniatures to promote their new lines, instead of just renders).

    Marcketing and miniature quality is in my opinion the areas they need to work the hardest right now.

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    1. I totally get where you're coming from. I only barely touched the surface of things that are brought up as far as complaints, but I recognize there are legitimate gripes including the ones I mentioned above & others as well.

      I saw that PP recently hired someone specifically to fill the roll of engaging with the community through social media. That certainly doesn't fix everything, but it's a step in the right direction that gives me hope for what the future holds.

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  3. You manage to get your wife to play? It's a fun game, I don't see the negative stuff because I am a near hermit living in the South of England. My close friend and I still play now but we have been on a long break doing other stuff. We lapped up MKII after MKI but we did lose steam for it at MKIII. Since then I only picked up the odd model really and I can't put a finger on why we stopped playing for the last 5 years because it is a great game.

    I don't think it was negativity, for us in our local group we just found the energy went from it. One friend sold his force, another gave up collecting. Only two of us held onto to our armies from MKI and we are now playing again. It's actually amazing how much we missed and we are loving the new Brawlmachine format which removes some over power things, especially with 25pts games.

    I was arguing with a friend last week because I suggested that Warmachine is probably the best small unit skirmish type wargame every written. The dice mechanics feel right, the flow of the game is great and the layered complexity fun to learn. It's a classic. The only issue for us in the UK now is the challenge of ordering new items which is probably partly due to shipping and global supply issues.

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    1. I actually got into the game last summer when my wife ordered a mystery box for each of us for my birthday so we could try it out. So, I guess technically, she got me to play lol.

      We love the Brawlmachine format. I won't dump on 75pt Steamroller. I'm sure it's great. It's just that for she & I, 25 pts is the sweet spot for what we want out of the game.

      As for ordering new items in the UK, I saw a comment from PP yesterday that they're working with a new distributor to fix the issues with getting products to the UK & the rest of Europe. Hopefully, that will take care of that issue for you sooner rather than later.

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  4. Bottom line is that PP, Matt Wilson, made a Fantastic! rules set, but unfortunately their business decisions have not been as fantastic. I started playing in 2010 just after they changed to MKII, there about, and was totally in for a long time, up until MKIII at which point (time period related, not because of MKIII) I stopped playing so much, until finally not at all; for many reasons many not related to PP and their actions.
    And I mean, I was invested. I have hundreds of models still, 2 whole factions, even after selling off a good chunk. I built terrain for conventions, 50 tables worth, without being asked, because I wanted it too look great. Good terrain, too! I sold it online for a while after.
    I recognized your enthusiasm because I had it, still have it, but the barrier to entry for this game, skill related and meta game are just too much. My best friend who I met the day I bought the game on his recommendation, is still my best friend and we've talked about what is wrong with PP (for hours and hours) without being emotionally negative. I have a yearning love WMH but for some reason it's just not that into me. That's what it feels like.

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    1. I understand the business decisions they'd made over the years hurt them for sure & I'm not at all trying to say things are perfect or that PP is without any fault. There are things I'd like to see them do differently / better. My whole prerogative in the blog wasn't that they don't deserve criticism or anything like that. It was more just my observation with how strong the negative feelings & harsh tone was from what seems to be former players who, even if they have valid complaints, hurt the message with how rough the tone / delivery of their messages are.

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  5. I'm pretty sure most of us are guilty of being pretty negative from time to time. I know from our standpoint (WarJax) it's the best war game we've ever played and love it and just want it to succeed. So it's more frustration because you want good things to happen. It's like watching Silicon Valley, they have this amazing ruleset and just bad things happen over and over lol.

    I hope they put out new starter product, adopt a brawlmachine esque format and revitalize the game. Whether that is just through getting product available again or through a new version. The only thing that will 100% kill the game for me is if they do a MK4 and change the underlying core game to something like strike dice, alternating activations, etc.

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    1. I understand the frustration for sure.

      Also, I completely agree as far as producing starter sets, marketing them properly, & not doing a complete revamp of the core rules. If there was one rule that I would like to see changed, it'd be to use the Warcaster flat -2" penalty for rough terrain instead of half speed. Even then, that's not a deal breaker if they don't change it. I just think it'd be a simple small change that could speed things up & make for smoother game play.

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